A friend writes to me: ‘You really have courage!’, but the truth is that I am very scared, I have an appointment to confirm with Yuri and at the last moment I would like to postpone the meeting.
I imagine, in a crescendo of panic, being stopped by the police, the secret service, the army. Of being taken to prison, or worse, shot at the first wall. Then rationality and a sense of duty regain the upper hand and I confirm the appointment.
Yuri joins me at the Italian restaurant near his home. He immediately sympathises with me. I put my hands out: ‘Yuri, my English sucks. ‘Good, then we can talk in Ukrainian,’ he replies, smiling.
Fortunately, the mobile phone’s translator facilitates the conversation. He inquires about my job: ‘I am not a journalist, I teach Italian and History in a primary school to nine- and ten-year-old girls and boys.’
‘History of Humanity or History of Italy?’ he inquires correctly ’Do you tell your pupils that human beings all come from Africa?’
‘Of course, that’s one of the first things I explain to them.’
‘Do they ask you how come we are light-skinned then?’
“I tell them that we get some of our original colour back in the sun”.
He smiles. ‘It’s harder for us Ukrainians to get a good tan.’
‘Do you also study the Roman Empire in school, which Mussolini liked so much?’
‘We study it critically, especially with respect to militarism and slavery. For example, I read to the children Pliny the Elder’s very harsh judgement of Julius Caesar, whom he accuses of having committed crimes against humanity during the Gaul campaign.’ Then I do not hide my sympathies for the Thracian gladiator Spartacus and the slave revolt.
He appreciates, we sit down and begin the long interview with questions from me and others sent by Anna Polo from Italy. At the end he takes me to get the taxi because it is getting late and in an hour the curfew will start.
When the taxi arrives an old lady asks us for a lift, the driver is fine with it and me too.
Yuri greets me with affection and now all my concern is for him, who in a few days will have to face a difficult trial. He is a brave guy who deserves all our solidarity and closeness.
Here is the interview.
You are accused of ‘justifying Russian aggression’ with your statement ‘Peace Agenda for Ukraine and the World’ read publicly on 2 October 2022, International Day of Nonviolence, in the University Botanical Park under the statue of Mahatma Gandhi. How do you respond to this accusation?
It is a preposterous pretext for stopping me and the organization I lead, the Ukrainian Pacifist Movement, from advocating peace and human rights, especially right to conscientious objection to military service. The Peace Agenda does not justifie Russian aggression. Actually, it supports condemnation of the aggression by the UN General Assembly resolution of 2 March 2022 as well as call for peaceful resolution of the conflict between Russia and Ukraine which Putin turned into full-scale genocide war of conquest.
The Peace Agenda statement was widely disseminated, sent to President Zelensky, and this became a pretext for persecution. But case file shows that Security Service of Ukraine was after me long before the Peace Agenda. They opened investigation when in March 2022 I petitioned Ukrainian Parliament Commissioner for Human Rights to recognize right to conscientious objection and allow objectors to travel abroad. A functionary from the Ombudsman’s secretariat informed the SSU. I complained many times, the Ombudsman Lubinets does not recognize the fault, but at least he mentioned in his annual report that the absence of an alternative service violates constitutional right to have religious beliefs incompatible with military service.
How do you see the current war situation?
Russian war of aggression turned into a war of attrition. Nobody likes it, but nor aggressor nor the victim want to give up. Russia and Ukraine are able to continue bloodshed with some degree of restraint and well-calculated vigour, in the pursuit of victory. Simplistic visions of peace, like the surrender of the enemy, are not realistic because both sides have serious economic base, including international backing. Ukraine, with the help of many countries, is trying to develop more serious and realistic vision of peace. But it coincides with a desperate want to go forward, even if there is no clear way. We are tired of war. I want to end it nonviolently, though many people refuse to consider such possibility.
In any case, Ukraine will not be part of any empire, and this war should teach all sorts of imperialists starting from Kremlin that it is too costly and too dangerous to build empires in 21st century. Better they scrap their guns and recognize that no free people like Ukrainians could be conquered by force, only the great powers of love and truth could rule the world and unite the humankind peacefully.
What gives you the strength to go on in this difficult situation?
Firstly, it is a hope based on knowledge and life experience that humans by nature are reasonable ones and any nonsense, even such painful, will end sooner or later after a proper discussion and reflections. Secondly, it is friends and faith that calls to walk cheerfully around the world answering that of God in everyone.
Would you like to say something to your supporters in Italy and other countries that we can spread through Pressenza?
I’d like to thank you for solidarity and support, for publications and petitions, for all that shows to persecutors of peace movement that the world is watching. Apart of my deep gratitude, I would like to ask to convey my call to be hopeful and driven by imagination, not primitive stereotypes and political slogans.
We the peace activists must be perceived, and truly be, harmless and productive idealists, legitimate dreamers actively trying to make world better and not worsen it by dumb moves or words. We are open to communicate with everybody, but we should be careful not to embrace and not to push toxic notions, such as full of injustice calls to surrender falsely presented as peace offers, or hatred and dehumanisation of “the enemy” disguised as “anti-fascism” or other sorts of “anti-authoritarianism”. We need to show example of nonviolent action and communication without unfair stereotypes and power structures. We need to emerge as an all-human people of the common planet, seeking for nonviolent governance and harmony among members of our eight-billion family and between humans and nature. Don’t wage any kind of war, don’t embrace darkness, sail the ocean of light towards a better future.
I believe that between war and surrender there is a third option, and that is forms of nonviolent popular defence. What do you think?
I agree. It is a shame that apart of UN and some civil society organizations institutions of nonviolent resistance to violence and unarmed protection of civilians are rare, for lack of knowledge, people and resources. Nonviolent resistance is a part of curriculum of the school of pacifism “Free Civilians” I started here in Ukraine. Advocating conscientious objection to military service, I call for nonviolent resistance to Russian aggression and I am happy when people find their ways to resist.
An example is Vitaliy Alexeienko, former prisoner of conscience released by Supreme Cour, who got suspended sentence again, pending new trial in Supreme Court where prosecutor asks real prison term. Vitaliy said at the trial in first and appellate instance he found a way to resist aggression as a Christian, without killing. Putin wants to divide us, but he became a postman to keep people of Ukraine united through delivery of letters, parcels and pensions; that way his peaceful labour preserves postal communication, which is a part if culture of peace and social cohesion. He cares about protection of civilians in Ukraine. If more people prefer peaceful work to killing, nobody will want to be a soldier, armies will vanquish and wars will cease. Inner voice of conscience calls us to a world where everyone refuses to kill and there are no wars.
How has Ukrainian society changed since the war?
Ukrainian society is severely traumatized after Russian aggression and this awakes many dark sides of popular mentality. We preserved some love for freedom and democracy, natural humanism of Ukrainians, but these values of peace culture are fragile and pressure of militarism, domestic and foreign, is overwhelming. Archaic delusion that violence solves problems and more violence is the best response to violence is widespread; this conception remains almost unchallenged in popular imagination. Temptations of power, greed, cruelty and hate consumed many minds. But even among people far from pacifism the sober understanding grows that we should not become the same as the aggressor State: turning into despotic armed to the teeth blood-and-soil military camp of slaves will not be “Ukrainian victory”. Society feels cornered, wants and feel able to get out from the dead corner. Perhaps we don’t have yet plausible vision how to end Russian aggression with dignity and justice, but we seek for it. We seek for something better than endless war many times predicted by many “realists” here and there.
Will it be possible to rebuild brotherly relations within the Ukrainian State between the Ukranian-speaking population and the Russian-speaking population?
If we are talking about all-human brotherhood, not “big brother in Kremlin” ruling “minor Ukrainian brother”, then I think it must happen sooner or later because these are normal relations between neighbouring peoples. But justice must be restored to secure peace. Russia must withdraw troops from Ukraine and compensate damages from all killing and destruction we suffered. Perhaps there is a solution not so direct and not so controversial for many Russians, but currently I can’t say what it is, while for Ukrainians it is a minimal condition. We need to seek solutions for reconciliation, gradual and wise solutions removing bit by bit the wall of hatred, pain, and alienation.
I grant that not only Russian imperialism but our Ukrainian nationalism too is an obstacle to peace, especially because of WWII era militarism entrenched in both ideologies. But it is a lie that Ukrainians are “fascists”, and Putin can’t seriously expect that the world could believe such “justification” of his war; especially since he expresses ambition to make Ukrainians one people with Russians, he probably thinks that any wish of independence of Ukraine is “fascist”. Thing is that people collect many things throughout life, and common collections became people’s heritage. Wars makes people to collect hate and fear and bad intentions. Militarism is the worst that people could collect together. People should not be defined by wars they waged, wage or expect to wage. People must define their identity with collective imagination, knowledge, art, joy and happiness of togetherness and openness to embrace anyone and anything in this wonderful and good Universe. When we will walk in the light, not in the darkness, we will be brothers and sisters, equal and creative, not destructive. For that end, a great work of enlightenment must be done.
What should the European peoples do to enforce the ceasefire?
Interesting word “enforce”; I hope you mean peaceful enforcement. Without peace initiatives, or with so weak peace initiatives as currently, Putin will continue to attack, and Zelensky will continue to counter-attack, and they will have supporters. To cease it, we must tell the truth not only about wrongness of Russian aggression, but about wrongness of any war and violence in principle and need to consider and implement peaceful solutions. Narrative of inevitability of war must be changed, we need to find nonviolent way to transform the behaviour of aggressor State and ensure restorative justice, compensation or at least mitigation of pains of all wrongs done. This is a big work which needs engagement of lot of people, lot of resources, research and education and dialogue efforts.
Also, resistance will be needed to attempts to use peace movements for the benefit of war efforts, and it is notorious how Kremlin has done that in the past discrediting peace activists; we must learn from such mistakes. Also, resistance to militarist thinking and suspicions and attacks will be needed. So, we need to work for peace and be resilient. Basic thing is to protect the right to refuse to kill and to popularise a vision of the world where all wars are ended because everyone refuses to kill, and to make widely known stories of people who lived their lives following this vision full of hope, and their responses to all challenges of militarism, the experience of successful nonviolent resistance.
