David Swanson, the Executive Director of World Beyond War and campaign coordinator of RootsAction.org, was awarded the Real Nobel Peace Prize for 2024 in a touching ceremony held on November 10, 2024, in Oslo. I had the pleasure of sitting with him at a small table at the front of the large auditorium immediately after the ceremony to ask him some important questions.
First of all, I would like to congratulate you on receiving the Real Nobel Peace Prize from the Lay Down Your Arms Foundation. How do you feel now?
Thank you! I’m very happy, deeply honored, and it’s wonderful just to be here with all these people who are doing incredible work. Receiving this prize, created by the late Fredrik Heffermehl, who was such a wonderful person and peace activist, is truly thrilling!
Many changes are taking place in the world today, including shifts in the U.S. political landscape. What kind of changes do you expect in U.S. foreign policy in the coming months?
Well, I think it will largely depend on what people do – which is the answer I would give at any point in history. There’s a significant danger in placing power in the hands of someone who seeks dictatorial authority. This is a person who has made reckless statements, some of which are deeply concerning.
However, there’s also reason for hope. Not as much as some people might think, since many have misplaced hope. But we might be able to push for an end to the war in Ukraine, and there’s a slight chance of achieving a just, sustainable peace. But it will require work, and it will need wiser minds at the table than Donald Trump or Vladimir Putin.
We need to be realistic. This isn’t some savior figure coming to fix everything. It’s the same person who once promised to end the war in Afghanistan and didn’t follow through, who supported the Saudi war on Yemen, who backed a coup in Venezuela, and who celebrated arms sales to oppressive regimes. This is no peace activist.
But if we hold onto the few positive promises, like support for free speech and potentially ending the war in Ukraine, and push for them to be realized responsibly, that’s something. It’s possible! We have to try.
At the same time, we shouldn’t fool ourselves into thinking we’ve lost democracy to this individual. In reality, we never had true democracy; we had oligarchy with tokenism and identity politics. We have to aim for genuine democracy.
How do you think these changes could affect U.S.-Europe relations?
Not as drastically as some fear. I don’t think Trump will pull the U.S. out of NATO or end arms deals with Europe. And Europe is unlikely to sustain the war without U.S. weapons. The idea that Europe would independently supply enough arms seems far-fetched. In fact, I commend Europe for not being the type of place that would do so.
If the U.S. stops sending weapons to Ukraine, peace will have to come, and Europe will need to foster a fair and lasting resolution. This means focusing on what the people in Ukraine want, rather than viewing it as a division between Russian and Western interests.
Europe, like the U.S., is trending toward authoritarianism. This will continue until a viable alternative arises. European nations are diverting funds from essential services to weapons because of NATO pressures. But there’s more of a tradition of public resistance in Europe, so I think it’s more likely there.
The U.S. is losing an unequal, flawed democracy. Europe, however, is at risk of losing some of the best, most egalitarian societies. There’s more at stake, so there should be a greater fight to preserve these values.
How can we use this moment of change to foster dialogue and reduce hostilities in the Ukraine conflict?
There’s already some dialogue, such as Trump and a billionaire friend speaking with Putin. Unlike President Biden, who wouldn’t engage with Russia, at least there’s communication now.
The question is: What will be said, and who will participate in the dialogue? We need experienced, thoughtful voices from all sides, not just billionaires. Diplomacy should involve people trained in building relationships and fostering calm and strategic dialogue, not those chosen for their wealth.
We must urge Trump to end the war in a lasting way, with all stakeholders present. And we need people who oppose Trump to protest the war now. It’s Trump’s war for them now, so they should take a stand.
